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Teacher Evaluations – Critical Thinking

Three-Men-In-a-Room Just RUINED Teacher Evaluations! Cuomo. Skelos, and Silver rammed through a new law last night making teacher evaluations available only to parents of their students.

I disagree that teacher evaluations should be shared only with parents (presumably parents of their own students). 

What about parents of children not yet in the school? What about non-parents, but especially administrators of other schools/districts which may consider hiring a teacher from another school or district? What about other teachers in the same school or district who feel they have been mistreated in the evaluation process?

If parents get to see evaluations with teacher names, then why not allow parents to participate in the teacher evaluation process?

Parents will be allowed to divulge teacher evaluations, rendering this privacy notion void.  Parents could conceivably make a compendium of all teacher evaluations in a school or entire district, and publish it.  Heck, an enterprising parent-teacher organization could decide that the “official” APPR evaluations under Principal Joe Doakes over in Yoknapatawpha High School are all much too rosy, and all the APPR evaluations under Principal Ulysses in Yoknapatawpha at the middle school are all too severely critical and nit-picking. 

Deciding then that the entire APPR evaluation process is bogus, the disillusioned PTO could undertake to do (and publish) their OWN teacher evaluations, completely outside of the purview of the school or district administration!

Actually, I believe teachers and their evaluations should be treated just as I am treated, and as is my annual work evaluation. Nobody other than me, my boss and the HR Department gets to see them. Making individual teacher evaluations available to anyone other than school district officials, in my opinion, is somewhere between draconian and foolhardy. I believe this newly adopted law will prove to be the undoing of any effectiveness anyone may have expected to have resulted from the APPR teacher evaluation process.

For the purposes of full disclosure, I am personally against the entire APPR teacher evaluation concept as being unnecessary and expensive as well as totally unproductive. Time will tell!

Chris Wendt June 26, 2012 at 02:21 am
@ Seamus: I am talking about this:
"The following provides guidance and clarification regarding session days, the school calendar and reporting of attendance data for State Aid purposes. Days of Session School districts must be in session for all students, including students with disabilities, for not less than 180 days. Included in the 180 days are days on which attendance is taken, days on which Regents examinations, State Assessments or local examinations are given and days on which superintendent's conference days are held. School year session days counting toward the 180 day requirement may not be scheduled on any day in July or August. Session days should not be scheduled after the June Regents examination period." Source: https://stateaid.nysed.gov/attendance/attendance_memo.htm Teacher contracts follow suit, usually with an extra day for a Superintendent's Conferemce for the puspose of staff development. But teaching, in the classroom with students present in a learning mode is 180 days across NY State.
Patrick June 26, 2012 at 02:52 am
S E A M U S, you are the best. While most of your stuff is spot on, your humor takes the cake. And the funniest part is that CW still picks and chooses which parts to respond to. Of the extensive list of evals, 16 is the best, but you left out clergy evals, they should be evaluated every other week, no matter the denomination.
Paul and Peggy June 26, 2012 at 11:57 am
Thats the technical data, however, there are numerous non-written requirements that the teacher is expected to adhere to. Planning takes up large amounts of time. There are plenty of days where a teacher coaches, comes home, eats dinner, then plans until late into the evening, and this does not even include grading and pro dev requirements. Teachers spend their summers coaching summer leagues, attending pro dev workshops, or working some other jobs. I dont want to get into an argument of "my job is harder than yours" like the "suffocating by taxes" post, but it is frustrating that people think teaching is like it was in the 70's and 80's. There is so much more to it.
SSteacher June 26, 2012 at 12:04 pm
1. Charter schools can remove students who are not trying and whose parents refuse to get involved. This cheery picking of the "best" candidates for school gives them inflated numbers. Look at the most successful ones and they all do this. To compare that to a public school where parents and students who do not care MUST be taken would be compainrg apples and oranges.
What does Jericho have that Seaford and Wantagh do not......MONEY. 1. They do not vote down budgets. 2. Parents are able to afford $90 per hour tutors for math, science, SAT prep ($150 an hour). Money is what really separates the nonsense of top schools vs others. Kids at Jericho are encouraged to take AP classes even if the school knows they are not capable because the more AP classes taken (not passed, just taken) show that their school is better. More research Lorraine. You are wrong yet again.
Paul and Peggy June 26, 2012 at 12:08 pm
Im realizing I went a little off topic.
If teacher evals need to be made then everyone should show their cards. Why does that code enforcement guy drive around all day with a coffee and cig? Hmmm I think Im checking the "Rarely performs his task" box. How about those wall streeters whose salaries are being paid by us? Why does that guy drive around in that suped up Mercedes? Hmmmm I think Im checking the "Poor use of finances" box. Why did that special pick up guy make a mess on my block and then when I call special pick up to complain, they say its not their responsibility? They shouln't get a positive evaluation either. Im all for teacher evals, hell release them to all four corners of the earth, but only if everyone else is treated the same way.
Mac June 26, 2012 at 12:08 pm
Seamus I have no sympathy for the teacher they all knew what they were getting into and made the trade-offs. we all made choices based on what we wanted in life. For anyone to think a teacher went into it just for the good of teaching is not thinking clearly. Teachers like all of us when we choose decided based on pay, potential future earnings, beneifts, time off and an enjoyment of what they were going to embark on. It is unfair now to criticize anyone based on their choice. Teachers earn their money no doubt. This evaluation process will go further in limiting what teahcers can truly teach. Teaching more to a test because they dont want to be ineffective. Complete nonsense.
SSteacher June 26, 2012 at 12:12 pm
Chris, the APPR is going to hurt students. Teachers care about them. We want them to succeed to the best of their abilities. However, Cuomo put in Dr. King, a two year teacher and founder of charter schools in Mass. He is going to systematically dismantle schools in NYS so private companies can move in and privatize teaching. As a teacher, I know many people who work in charter schools. They explain how much of a disaster it is. Again, there are some successful ones but they have the right to cherry pick students and families and remove them at will. The ones that are not successful charge the state millions and run off with the cash. It has happened time and time again. Public education is absolutely necessary for the country to succeed. On Long Island, our kids get amongst the best public education in the nation. Partially because of excellent teaching, wonderful families and the resources (money) to fix or hide problems. APPR is a disaster in waiting that is going to cost jobs and programs to implement because of the draconian cuts of state aid and the 2% tax cap. Just watch, next budget season is going to really hurt the kids. I for one hate it.
Lorraine DeVita June 26, 2012 at 12:13 pm
av·er·age/ˈav(ə)rij/
Noun The result obtained by adding several quantities together and then dividing this total by the number of quantities; the mean. Adjective Constituting the result obtained by adding together several quantities and then dividing this total by the number of quantities. Verb Amount to or achieve as an average rate or amount over a period of time.Eg: "annual inflation averaged 2.4 percent". Synonyms noun mean - medium - mediocrity Academic indicators- Seaford National ranking NOT RANKED College Readiness Index 29.7 Math Proficiency 3.4 English Proficiency 3.3 Student/Teacher Ratio 12:109 812 Students/69 teachers AP performance Participation Rate 35% Participant Passing Rate 81% Exams Per Test Taker 3.6 Exam Pass Rate 81% Quality-Adjusted Participation Rate 28% Quality-Adjusted Exams Per Test Taker 3.6 Academic Indicators - Jericho National Rank#94 College Readiness Index 74.3 Math Proficiency 3.9 English Proficiency 3.8 Student/Teacher Ratio12:109 1,226 Students /101Teachers AP performance Participation Rate 84% Participant Passing Rate 85% Exams Per Test Taker 6.2 Exam Pass Rate 69% Quality-Adjusted Participation Rate 71% Quality-Adjusted Exams Per Test Taker 5.1 adjective mean - ordinary - medium - middling - mediocre - middle
SSteacher June 26, 2012 at 12:14 pm
Bam! Thanks.
What about the "bloggers" on Patch evaluations (or even credentials) to give them a blog?
Lorraine DeVita June 26, 2012 at 12:16 pm
I dont define average- I dont define leaders. they are defined by the numbers the educational philospphy and the standards they speak for themselves. As i have stated numerous times Seaford students ARE NOT LESS capable.
Lorraine DeVita June 26, 2012 at 12:26 pm
If you have the desire and willpower, you can become an effective leader. Good leaders develop through a never ending process of self-study, education, training, and experience (Jago, 1982).
Environment Every organization has a particular work environment, which dictates to a considerable degree how its leaders respond to problems and opportunities. This is brought about by its heritage of past leaders and its present leaders. Goals, Values, and Concepts Leaders exert influence on the environment via three types of actions: 1.The goals and performance standards they establish. 2.The values they establish for the organization. 3.The business and people concepts they establish. Successful organizations have leaders who set high standards and goals across the entire spectrum,. Values reflect the concern the organization has for its employees, customers, investors, vendors, and surrounding community. These values define the manner in how business will be conducted. Concepts define what products or services the organization will offer and the methods and processes for conducting business. These goals, values, and concepts make up the organization's personality or how the organization is observed by both outsiders and insiders. This personality defines the roles, relationships, rewards, and rites that take place. http://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/leader/leadcon.html
Lorraine DeVita June 26, 2012 at 12:42 pm
@seamus-
There are many teachers that go the extra mile and as do many others in any business. MY personal viewpoint is this. There needs to be a method to reward the ones who do exceed who are inspriing and effective and cull the ones who arent. I doubt anyone thinks APPR is going to be the saviour to education or the finacial crisis, however it IS a step in holding people accountable for performance. Is it perfect ? ofcourse not, far from it. But it IS a start and will hopefully evolve into something that will establish a standard that needs to met. For all my rantings as they have been called, I firmly believe the great teachers will benefit from this in the long run as it evolves, while teachers who for whatever reason arent successful will benefit from the "challenge" of becoming better with the additional guidance and supervision that will follow. I also beleive the UNION is a major road block in allowing us to remove ineffective teachers swiftly, it also is prohibiting us from REWARDING excellent teachers for their work. Again APPR is far from perfect, but it is a step in the right direction
Concerned American June 26, 2012 at 01:45 pm
Catholic schools and charter schools have an advantage that no public school will ever have-they can dismiss students back to public school any time they want. When I went to school the teachers evaluated students, and the parents of the good students made sure they did their work and behaved. The students who could not hack it, barely passed or dropped out, still had the chance to work at a job. Now all students are being tracked to take Regents tests. It is an impossibility. When we compete against the world, we lose, not because the teachers are no good, but because they are not supported as they are in the rest of the world. We have huge numbers of teachers leaving the profession, and many due to retire soon. In foreign countries who are eating our lunch (China, Korea) teachers are well respected, well paid, and when students do not succeed, additional resources are brought in. Does that sound like what we are doing here? Absolutely not. Much like nursing, another maligned profession, there is little support-hmm, wonder what nurses and teachers have in common? Standardized tests, evaluations, attacks on tenure, reducing benefits, the perfect storm. Forget rewarding excellent teachers, soon you will have to beg any idiot to teach. Just what we need to be competitive in the world. Anyone with a Masters degree and years of experience would be well sought after in the business world.
Paul and Peggy June 26, 2012 at 02:17 pm
Go after the teachers with this, but ALL taxpayer funded employees should be treated the exact same way. I get stopped for speeding, I want to see Officer Blanks evaluation. How many people has he arrested? What were their ages? Where did these arrests happen? I get a tour of the Montauk Lighthouse, the guide makes a mistake with a date, I want to see the evaluation. Random helicopter guy making sure Al Qaida isn't attacking Brands Bike Shop, I want to see your evaluation too.
Paul and Peggy June 26, 2012 at 02:35 pm
Hey Mac, you ever see The Water Boy (1998) with Adam Sandler?
Lorraine DeVita June 26, 2012 at 02:35 pm
HMM, wrong again? well look at the numbers posted SS, if i am not mistaken in Jericho 84% Take the test 85% PASS the tests. so there goes your Stated fact out the door. They encourage their students to take AP courses CORRECT- score one for you! So if 35% of 193 seaford sr's take ap tests = 67.55 only 81% pass thats 54.71 students ! in Jericho out of 386 sr.'s 84% take AP tests =290.34 students of those 85% pass the ap tests = 246.789 students. Jericho students take on the average 6 ap exams in seaford only 3 -- Now again i ask you is it an educational philosophy that we are lacking ? As to teacher salaries I suggest you go to SEETHROUGHNY and pop in Jericho AND Seaford and then tell me the difference is so staggering-- its not. I will agree the amount spent per pupil is higher in Jericho but if you do the math its NOT in teacher salaries .. so go figure - and while there pls read the contract language - a VAST difference between contracts. http://seethroughny.net/index.php?cID=169
Lets place sarcasm aside and discuss the facts
Lorraine DeVita June 26, 2012 at 02:40 pm
Seamus, barking up the wrong tree here, I DO NOT SUPPORT posting/ broadcasting Teacher evals. It serves as i stated before no purpose except to inflame ...... See my intitial post. I agree with you on this one..
Lorraine DeVita June 26, 2012 at 02:51 pm
Can anyone explain to me why we have schools of law and schools of medicine yet no school of education? Why is it Teachers can TEACH with a BA while working towards a Masters but lawyers can not practice LAW nor can doctors practice medicine without completing their educations and internships. Now before you all go crazy let me explain. We NEED great teachers, why dont we offer college financial support so they can continue and complete their education BEFORE they get infront of a class, If they pass the entrance exam to a SCHOOL of Education its free if they maintian a certain GPA... and to REWARD exisiting exceptional teachers perhaps we should FORGIVE their college loans as a bonus.This could be funded on the Governemnt level .... Establish higher STANDARDS to become a teacher offering Free Masters for those who make the cut... Just a thought..
Paul and Peggy June 26, 2012 at 03:37 pm
Oh I forgot.....Patrick, thank you.
Bill Alderman June 26, 2012 at 03:42 pm
This is just the first , rushed, stupid , youthful steps that will either evolve into a dance between the heads of the parties involved or a speedbump that will get removed eventually after years of angst.. But like the No Child Left Unscathed policy , there will be many innocents trampled or thrown under the bus here. Sad, Sad , very sad.
Chris Wendt June 26, 2012 at 04:29 pm
@ Lorraine I strenuously disagree that having a Masters Degree for most teachers is of any real benefit to their students. It is a great way to ""justify"" paying teachers more money, and don't ask "...more money than what?" because the answer, when it comes to teacher compensation is simply "more money" with no comprator needed to justify the use of the word "more".
Advanced science and high level math teachers and special education teachers should have Masters degrees. But those teachers should NOT be on the same salary schedule, making the same money as librarians and general education (especially elementary level) teachers, based solely upon their relative seniority, as opposed to the degree of difficulty and relative importance of their subject matter. @ Bill Alderman, good response: you get it! Thanks.
Lorraine DeVita June 26, 2012 at 06:49 pm
@chris, I strenuously disagree right back at ya!
if i understand correctly you feel a BA/BS in education is sufficient to qualify an individual to teach? That a Masters is a justification for more money? So in essence the LESS educated the teacher equates to a lower paid better EDUCATOR? Chris did you really just say that. After all this rigamaroll with everyone spouting teachers are the foundation of this country etc etc the minds of youth are at stake etc etc. you advocate "dumbing" down the qualifications to BE a teacher..I'm pushing for better prepared,highly educated,with stronger skill sets which i feel will impact in a positive way on the education of our students . Your advocating WHAT exactly? I am NOT a teacher but let me tell you, you think having a class of 28 6 yr olds is a walk in the park with their attention span, getting them to read, comprehend math all while recognizing individual learning issues etc.? Elementary school is the FOUNDATION of their education.. if the foundation is deficient then the whole house is compromised. So when they GET to science and math etc in the MS & HS dont ya THINK there would be a problem if their elem. teachers we less educated ,less prepared to deal with the myriad of issues that start to manifest on the elem. level. THATs why it is MORE important that ALL teachers are highly qualified & educated. We have to be MORE selective with HIGHER, TOUGHER standards not LOWER . Cull the wheat from the chaff !
Lorraine DeVita June 26, 2012 at 07:04 pm
And the librarian of today aint the old lady sitting behind the desk looking down her nose over her glasses telling you to be quiet ..or drilling the dewi decimal system into your brain. One of the shining lights in Seaford IS the Librarian on the HS level.
She is an example to be followed ... and the special ed teachers THE REALLY GOOD special ed teachers deserve a congressional medal of honor.AND combat pay! for not only do they have to deal with each individual students specific needs they have to deal with the parents who can be equaly challenging...
Paul and Peggy June 26, 2012 at 07:38 pm
Just noticed this one....
Receiving tenure at a Long Island public school is like being hazed in a fraternity. It is a hard nosed, cut throat, one minor foul up and you're out process. Minor foul up meaning MINOR foul up. Once you do get tenure you have to demonstrate your dedication and loyalty or else you are burdened by new preps every year or are ostracized in other ways. Boondoggle!
Chris Wendt June 26, 2012 at 07:49 pm
Lorraine,..that is the same old, tired teacher union song and dance about every teacher being the underpinning of our nation, the holder of the keys to our future, blah, blah...blah.
My words speak for themselves. Degrees do not make good teachers. Good teachers are born, not made. Teaching is a talent, a gift, a skill set. Good teaching, effective teaching is that talent developed through practice and doing; it is a basic skill set perfected into a craft, not in a graduate program, but in the classroom; a craft, not a profession like either medicine or the law. Except for the teachers union, librarians in public schools would be civil service, like the librarians in our public libraries. I have great respect for librarians, both in our local and school libraries. That one group of librarians should be in the teachers union earningdouble what the other group earns in the public library speaks to part of the problem in our public schools, Looking at this in the context of APPR, how are they going to evaluate school librarians vis-a-vis standardized tests? if the Golden Books are all correctly put into the stacks at the elementary school library (IMC), does that librarian earn a high evaluation? How would an elementary school librarian EVER earn an unsatisfactory rating, and if one ever did, then why should it take two years to fire them?
Gigi June 26, 2012 at 07:50 pm
Columbia Teachers College.
Paul and Peggy June 26, 2012 at 08:01 pm
Hey Hey TOH/Nassau County/NYS build us some sidewalks bro! Once that's done, Im going to evaluate it and complain about it.
Lorraine DeVita June 26, 2012 at 08:50 pm
Chris, I dont laud the chestnut - I strongly support and advocate the concept that the better educated the teacher the better teacher they will be.imposing stricter standards to become and educator. I am also a proponent of mandatory continued education for teachers.."The more you know
the more you grow" . You obviously havent been to a HS library in a LONG time. Technology has liberated the Library! Libraries are no longer books on a shelf. they are learning centers - Hopefully within the near future the actual physical footprint of the library will be the heart of the HS campus. Students can have access to any book via technology whether it be ipad, ipod smart phone or computer. the possibilties are endless in fact most librarians are or are going to need to be more tech savey then most SD IT Managers/Directors as they are hands on and keep abreast of the lastest technology and applications that support and complement course work. Point click and voila! With more and more books being digitized, with the evolution of the library into a multi media center the possibilities for students are going to be global & endless.
Lorraine DeVita June 26, 2012 at 08:58 pm
I think you should read review the content overview of APPR - some are exempt as this point. I believe Art Music library & PE and few others arent under the APPR umbrella at this time. I think it would behoove all of us to read and understand the ins and outs of APPR before we go ripping it to shreds especialy if we are under false impressions / misconceptions .
John Clark June 27, 2012 at 12:27 am
Ah, Seamus, we don't evaluate the "IMAX projector guy" because Nassau County only has a "Big Screen" in the Cradle of Aviation... sadly, we're too broke to afford the "IMAX" designation anymore. Thus, no first-run blockbuster movies raking in high box-office ticket prices anymore (*sigh*)...

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