'Seasons at Seaford' Developer Stresses Age Restriction at Community Meeting

The Engel Burman Group representatives tell packed crowd Thursday night that condos proposed for former Seaford Avenue School property will not add any students into district.

The developer of a proposed new condominium development at the former Seaford Avenue School property assured residents during a public forum Thursday night that the planned 112 units would only be for people ages 55 and older and not add any additional new students into the schools. 

Steven Krieger, a representative for The Engel Burman Group, told a packed audience in the Seaford High School Auditorium that they will sign a covenant with the Town of Hempstead restricting all units in their "Seasons at Seaford" development have one or two people 55 and older living there. Krieger also said during his presentation at Thursday night's informational meeting on the proposed $5.1 million sale of the 5.66 acre property up for a referendum vote on Oct. 16 that another covenant with the town will also be signed that forbids any school-aged children from residing in the condos.

The "Seasons at Seaford" project is being developed by BK at Seaford, LLC, a subsidiary of The Engel Burman Group, which is in contact to purchase the 5.66 acre property on 2165 Seaford Ave. for $5.1 million. If voter approval is granted, the two-bedroom units will be sold in the 350,000-$400,000 range and first offered to Seaford School District residents and their parents. The facility would also include a central clubhouse with a fitness center and outdoor pool.

The 1939-built Seaford Avenue School closed in 1981 and was leased to Five Towns College from 1982-1992 and Nassau BOCES from 1992-2010. District officials said the sale of the property to BK at Seaford is approved, an estimated $100,000 in annual maintenance costs would be saved.


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Dozens spoke out during the public comments portion of Thursday night's informational meeting to address concerns about traffic and changing the character of the neighborhood around the Seaford Avenue School if condos are built.

"You have too much traffic too close together," said Elizabeth Volz, who resides on Oakland Avenue in Wantagh within the Seaford School District. 

Bob Eschbacher, a traffic expert with VHP Engineering in Hauppauge, said a recent traffic study he conducted determined that the "Seasons at Seaford" complex would only add one extra car every five minutes during morning hours on streets surrounding the property. Eschbacher said the low traffic estimates are based on how senior citizens who are retired typically do not drive during the morning during rush hour. He added that traffic resulting from the condo development may be less than when Nassau BOCES operated there. 

Some questions asked if single-family homes were considered for the site and Krieger said that kind of development was studied but it was determined that only 30 houses would be able to be built and the selling price for the district would be $1.5 million.

said the 112 condo units would generate $620,000 in school taxes to Seaford each year. 

In late 2010, the Seaford School District issued a community input survey that 643 district residents responded to on what to do with the former elementary school and no preference was emphasized in the results. Seaford Superintendent Brian Conboy said he met with Hempstead Town Supervisor Kate Murray in early 2011 to see if the town would have any interest in acquiring the property to build a community center or athletic fields, but she informed him that this plan could not be achieved during the current economic climate. 

"We can't wait any longer to make a decision on the property," Brian Fagan, president of the Seaford Board of Education during Thursday's meeting. 

The Oct. 16 referendum vote for the proposed Seaford Avenue School sale is scheduled from 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. at Seaford Manor School and Seaford Harbor School.

Ralebird October 09, 2012 at 02:40 PM
The contract as it regards zoning variances is largely unenforceable. The school district does not have the power to control land usage, that lies with the town. It is the duty of the district to get the most value from the buyer as possible. While difficult to make any usage clauses in the contract binding on the purchaser, the town will certainly take into consideration what the developer has promised the community when seeking the required variance.
SeafordManorMama October 09, 2012 at 02:54 PM
VL, Please... I've been saying this about CW for weeks now regarding this issue. He can't take a polite hint can he?? I'll say it again, while his knowledge is an asset it should be unbiased and it is not. It's one thing to offer sound information regarding specific laws and insights to the BOE. Its quite another to offer an opinion as to what SEAFORD should be doing. His opinion was never solicited, nor wanted. He needs to back off and offer not advice but an understanding ear. His rhetoric about the sale is downright unwanted at this point and he needs to stop. He stated himself in a previous post that he's was glad this wasn't being presented to his town as he would not know what to do as far as a vote. either yea or nay. So enough already. Please.
SeafordManorMama October 09, 2012 at 03:05 PM
Is anyone certain that this meeting on the 11th will be an "open" meeting"? I have heard and read in previous posts (before last weeks meeting) that a meeting went "private" after everyone filed in, said the pledge and then the public was asked to leave. Any chance that it could happen this time or is it something we just don't know about until we attend? I have other commitments that night and my husband would have to take off in order to attend. Just curious what everyone's feelings were. Thx
Lorraine DeVita October 09, 2012 at 03:35 PM
@ ralebird- lol.. pits of hell? wow wouldnt have phrased Seaford that way- NY STATE MAYBE! Seaford by all economic equations is NOT the ideal place for anyone to retire from a strictly financial viewpoint . However, there are plenty of people who have emotional attachments that overide the cost of staying here. I RESPECT that and their choices. However, I dont see 113 Senior Seafordites rushing to sell thier homes to move into CONDO's that dollar for dollar per sq foot are MORE costly then their existing residences. That is my perspective. however, some people possibly those OVER 65 would welcome being able to live in thier hometown in a smaller sq ft. condo without the maint of a house. I have no issue with a 55+ community. for some it works for myself i cant see it. Seaford has a wealth of reasons to stay, friends neighbors, children , boating, proximity to the beach and NYC, you are 100% correct. however in order to AFFORD to live in a condo or a home in Seaford you better have one hell of 401k, pension or a mattresss stuffed with 100 dollar bills.! The economy in NYS is not supportive of retirees. This SALE of the CENTURY is not going to reduce taxes, is NOT going to eliminate or stave off increases. It will simply be more in the pot of misspent funding.
Chris Wendt October 09, 2012 at 03:41 PM
@ Wayne re: "I would agree that it's unrealistic to think that school taxes are going down, but that doesn't mean that they couldn't nor does it mean that they shouldn't. What it does mean is that they won't, absent a major restructuring in the way education is delivered, which is not in the cards. At least not right now." There is already a major restructuring on the way education will be delivered, taking place as we speak. As you may have guessed (actually you did), high cost and taxes are two of the four driving forces behind it. More on this after the Presidential election, which is four weeks from today. Watch for my upcoming blog on this very topic. Input welcom at chriswendt117@gmail.com
Lorraine DeVita October 09, 2012 at 03:43 PM
Just going to throw this one out there for thought- when all 113 seniors sell their homes and move into the codos, Just WHO do you all think are going to BUY their homes 3& 4 bedrooms homes . MORE seniors with no kids? Whether it be 55+ or no age restirction the outcome will be almost the same - We WILL have younger families buying the OLD FOLKS houses, those younger PEOPLE come complete with KIDS.. LMAO.Does the BOARd not realize the schools are STILL going to have to address an influx of students REGRADLESS Of what this community is led to believe or hope for. Kids arent a product of post menopausal men and women regardless of what type of housing they live in. So if you dont want FAMILIES to fill those empty 3&4 bedroom houses that are soon to be vacated for 2 bedroom condos you better make sure EVERY senior ONLY sells to SENIORs.. follow the dots people.
Steven r October 09, 2012 at 06:26 PM
It's funny how someone only types on the patch. Yet trots their children up there at a meeting. SPEAK UP. don't use ur children
Ralebird October 09, 2012 at 07:23 PM
People here need to broaden their horizons and stop thinking so provincially. The man from Wantagh has a stake in what construction takes place in a neighborig area even if he won't benefit from its development. While Seaford residents may be given some priority by the developers there is no reason to believe a large number of Seaford homes will be vacated by those moving into this development. The focus needs to remain on A) Eliminating an expanding money pit and B) Maximizing income for the district.
Lorraine DeVita October 10, 2012 at 01:28 AM
D'Agostino - Special Counsel, Town of Hempstead Department of Planning and Economic Development, 1996 – 2006. read as the group granting PILOTs people Town of Hempstead Local Development Corporation, 2009 to PRESENT Town of Hempstead Industrial Development Agency, 2006 to present, Town of Hempstead Local Development Corporation, 2009 to Present THE SAMe Attorney that spoke at the Oct 4th meeting for the developer even though he isnt the cousel of record on the contracts? and we should TRUST BK of Seaford NOT to change the rules when this heavy weight with strings to match is up to bat for them? also take a peek at this http://www.judicialaccountability.org/articles/lawyersonpension.htm Intersting reading FYI Ingerman Smith are OUR attorneys.
Follow the Money October 10, 2012 at 02:00 AM
Steve R - I did not suggest that there should be a field within walking distance for every child. However, there is a field there today and it is nice that children can learn a level of independence and not have to be taxied around by their parents. You don't know me so why would you insinuate that I am lazy? That kind of shallow thinking has no place in the public discourse. You should come forward in the arena of ideas with your own thoughts and not look to put people down if you don't agree with them. Everyone is concerned about property values, the community should be thinking about what can be done with the school property to ehance the value of the ENTIRE community. A first class library would bring an enourmous benefit to the entire community, young, old and in between. We need to look beyond what would just benefit the Seaford School district. A district that needs to be more concerned about how the 99% of the budget they spend, not the 1% that is spend on the Waverly Ave school.
Follow the Money October 10, 2012 at 02:01 AM
Steve R - In response to your reply of my earlier post. I did not suggest that there should be a field within walking distance for every child. However, there is a field there today and it is nice that children can learn a level of independence and not have to be taxied around by their parents. You don't know me so why would you insinuate that I am lazy? That kind of shallow thinking has no place in the public discourse. You should come forward in the arena of ideas with your own thoughts and not look to put people down if you don't agree with them. Everyone is concerned about property values, the community should be thinking about what can be done with the school property to ehance the value of the ENTIRE community. A first class library would bring an enourmous benefit to the entire community, young, old and in between. We need to look beyond what would just benefit the Seaford School district. A district that needs to be more concerned about how the 99% of the budget they spend, not the 1% that is spend on the Waverly Ave school.
Lorraine DeVita October 10, 2012 at 03:03 AM
@ Lovsea. what school did you graduate from? your math is a little off... there is an assit sup position open in November you might want to apply becasue your math matches Kennys math!
Lorraine DeVita October 10, 2012 at 03:46 AM
@ lovesea- We were NEVER going to get 5 mil PLUS 2 mil for the demo of the building .. where are YOU getting your info from. We dropped the price to 5.1 mil GROSS to satisfy the asbestos issue. We are getting NOTHING for the demolition. The cost to demo the building is the builders burden not ours. and to top it off the 5.1 mil is not guaranteed! The GROSS price is dependent on the number of unit approved by the ZB. The NET is dependent on how many hours charges @ the rate 200 per by INGERMAN SMITH as well the % owed to the Broker greiner maltz At the rate we are going If we NET 4- 4.5 mil consider us lucky!
Lorraine DeVita October 10, 2012 at 01:30 PM
@ Lovesea- All sarcasm aside- The point here at this time is not JUST about CONDOs' for the old or young- Its about insuring that WHATEVER is built there and to whomever it is sold is in the BEST interest of this community both LONG and short term. NO one is denying that the building isnt an albatross or a whitelephant , however, I think at this point on the cusp of making a major decision that will have ramifications for this community in so many ways for many many years We the taxpayers need to be diligent in insuring this SALE of the century is indeed what it claims to be and that the people disseminating the drips and draps of information are in fact giving us the truth and the whole picture. We need to know what consequences IF any we maybe facing, we need to know what the drawbacks are IF any we need to know and have a right to know all the pertinant players and what their interests are. We need information and TIME to make an informed unemotional decision. NOBODY likes anything shoved down their throat claiming that either the sky will fall if this deal doesnt go thru or worse yet THIS is the coming of the lord to save our financial souls. We are NOT debating at this point is this right or wrong we ARE insisting we be afford more time to make a very hard decision so We CAN determine with ALL the information we can garner if this is good or bad for this community at this time.
LovSea October 10, 2012 at 01:36 PM
@Lorraine – it took you all of 10 minutes to comment! One would think you sit and wait for new comments so you can pounce! SO LETS GO WITH YOUR FIGURES $4 – 4.5 million (if were lucky!) Are you kidding me?? Did you not hear the gentleman that got up (born and raised and now raising his own family here) and state that he was on the 2005 committee to get rid of the property and at that time it was appraised at 4.3 mill (in a much better economy than now) – but had no offers! (oh, I’m sorry I forgot – you were not at the meeting so how could you hear any other opinions!) $500-600,000 in yearly school tax revenue (the builder estimated $620,000 at the meeting – in writing!) but my mistake again – how could you have seen what his charts showed - you were not there. If we turn this down, it will in the end cost the residents 2mil + to take that dilapidated building away – and until then approx $100,000 a year to take care of the property – but for how many years? and we would have lost the NET 4-4.5 mill offer!
Lorraine DeVita October 10, 2012 at 01:39 PM
Morning VL- Seems it will be quite a MUSICALY inspired meeting as MANY will be wearing their " bells and whistles! " Hopefully the brain trust of 5 have en toto taken a trip to CVS to purchase and use Q tips to clean the ear canals to insure they can HEAR what this community is saying. Their Thinking Caps need to dusted off and placed on their heads so they then can UNDERSTAND and comprehend WHAT we are saying and WHY! The Dunce caps need not enter the buidling ....
Lilly Hayden October 10, 2012 at 01:52 PM
If that group of 5 acts like they have in the past, they more than likely went to CVS to purchase new earplugs.
Lorraine DeVita October 10, 2012 at 01:54 PM
LOL.. my morning coffee ritual must upset you as well as my split screen allowing me to do multiple thigns simultaneously - however seems you beat me by atleast 7 minutes to repost ! so good for you! I explained WHY i wasnt At the meeting - so if you didint catch it before Was clelebrating 40th wedding anniversary in Vegas an unexpected but much appreciated GIFT from our kids - should i have stated oops sorry guys ALL the money and time and thoughfulness should go down the tubes becaseu Lovesea feels your mom and dad should have attended a meeting? NOT ! You are assuming that We will be repsonsible for demolishing the building and have added the cost of 2 mil on our shoulders. So you emphatically KNOW there are no other interested parties either this year or next? how is that? IF this BOARD can AWARD 100k in RAISES to TWO Administrators I am sure they can pull another 100k our of their perverbial you know whats to keep this buidling around for 1 more year IF neccessary. I am NOt saying NO to anything LoveSea i AM however saying before we RUSH to judgement/vote on this very important issue we get all the facts to make an informed decision. Something SOME people seem to have a GREAT FEAR about otherwise they wouldnt be pushing this so hard and fast so close to a vote that will greatly impact this community for years ot come in more ways then one.
LovSea October 10, 2012 at 02:02 PM
@VL - Good Morning - I assumed you would be next (as I'm sure everyoine else on here did as well) In full rant? - I don't think so. Just trying to voice an opinion and feel it necessary to be alittle extra loud (!) over the squeaky wheels on here. If we won't tolerate bullying in our schools - it should not be allowed on here. Please do not even bother to comment back to me on here - I have pulled my subscription from the Patch - you'll just be talking to Lorraine and I think the phone or your kitchen tables would be a much better place for that.
Patrick October 10, 2012 at 02:12 PM
Can't wait to see what type of debacle Lorraine turns this meeting into. If memory serves me, she has more knowledge about all things than everyone involved, has done more of this than everyone involved, and has absolutely no problem telling everyone what they shoud be doing. Can't wait to hear what gems she comes up with for the BOE. Any odds on the BOE members puking the minute she enters the building? Or has her husband planned a special evening of caramel corn and dentu-grip?
Patrick October 10, 2012 at 02:18 PM
Oh yes I will be there, if for no other reason than I am morbidly fascinated by train wrecks, and this should be a doosey!!
Patrick October 10, 2012 at 02:53 PM
Sorry, VL, I guess you don't know. I sold my home 5 doors away from the school recently, and according to all others I am not allowed to have an opinion on the goings on in the hallowed confines of Seaford anymore. By the way, made a very tidy profit, No one who has purchased a home in Seaford in the recent past will be able to make that statement for a long, long time, regardless of the outcome of this deal. I'm just going to see all the eye-rolling and listen to the hootin' and hollerin' of people, no matter what the outcome, that will never be staisfied. Should be better than Ringling Bros.
Judith Conlon October 11, 2012 at 09:08 PM
Is the mike open to me again? You wouldn't believe the way I got "dropped" from this forum.. Getting back to EB it's NO deal for Seaford. This feels just like a "confidence swindle" people yakking in my ear to DO IT NOW and reserve rational thought til later. Then, the GREED factor: HOW could you turn down the MONEY MONEY MONEY!! Wake up, Seaford, these parasites can't deal with a 2 percent budget cap, they've already sacrificed the students and NOW they're coming after the REST OF US. Don't give them one red cent to pocket for THEMSELVES, stuffing their golden parachutes before the bloodbath of district consolidations begins! The building happens to be a FIXED asset, generating 500k in annually for thirty years, not "dilapidated." More like "recently neglected" these sharks have been circling it for years! Protect OUR asset and tell them all (BOE/EB/BK) to take a leap. This property can ABSOLUTELY generate income again, once we pry their sticky little fingers off of it! Tall grass, broken windows? Look no further than The "supe's" 50 PERCENT raise! That would have paid for the upkeep. Can their "priorities" be any "clearer?" Anyone in dire need of an expensive apartment need only drive 6 miles over to E Meadow's "Seasons" 400+complex, where they're selling like hot cakes -NOT! Take back our town & vote it DOWN!
Ozone Park Native October 11, 2012 at 09:58 PM
I'm STILL waiting for an answer as to just WHERE that 10K/year went. They say upkeep of the property. What upkeep? That place looks worse every day. How about a little paint, new windows? I'm sure 10K wasn't spent on the mowing of the lawn - More like the 10K went to the Board's salaries !!!!!! SHOW ME WHERE "MY" MONEY WENT!!!!
Judith Conlon October 11, 2012 at 10:01 PM
I take that back..You may not even HAVE to drive 6 miles..Judging from the map "points" on the front page of this Patch, you're looking at another "bullseye" for EB on Seamanship Neck Road, just a stone's throw north of the Seaford High School. I wonder what they're planning to build up there?
Judith Conlon October 11, 2012 at 10:06 PM
*Seamans Neck Road (darn spell check)..
Ozone Park Native October 11, 2012 at 10:14 PM
In my haste I left off a 0 in the above - it's 100K/year ---sorry folks..
Buster of Seaford October 11, 2012 at 11:19 PM
Adjusting my helmet..Again, to nutshell this..it's too big for the site. The impact studies, if any were really done, laughable. I mean they said the traffic will be less than when the BOCES had it? Really? The contract is fatally flawed. The tax remedy, minimal. Once it's gone, it's gone. 100K a year, the cost of less than a teacher (and where does that $ go? Who established that #- the same folks that paid for that "Traffic consultant"..?) Lets see, what else..one other thing...I'm not advocating keeping it as a field. That's why we all vote. But to the person that feels that our kids can cross Merrick or worse Sunrise to use a field..try that yourself. Bring your wings. Many years back there was a big to do at the school over buses.. they held a lot of people to the EXACT distance to the school..dealing with the transportation dept. is oh so special. They told the parents the kids could cross Sunrise themselves, without a crossing guard. About the same time that a pedestrian, a kid, was killed on Seamons Neck and Sunrise. And nothing was done. PD acknowledged the situation of cars speeding over 135 with no visibility until the last minute was a dangerous situation. Nothing was ever done. Maybe we needed a traffic study, you think?
Buster of Seaford October 11, 2012 at 11:22 PM
I wouldn't vote for this if EB promised us the moon. BOE..do what we want for a change, cancel the vote. Have another one next time we vote the budget. Include all the options that have been discussed. Be transparent. Notify EVERY taxpayer when the vote is scheduled. Stop trying to push your own agenda on the community. You have lost an awful lot of credibility from this mess. That's all I got. See you there.
Judith Conlon October 16, 2012 at 06:50 AM
FYI...by "gaping holes in the contract" I didn't mean ONLY those that Engel Berman has so "graciously" (and RECENTLY) decided to "fix." (How sweet of them!) That contract has so much wiggle room, EB won't even need zoning board connections! Can't wait to see the "new and improved" version! Remember that EB exercised IT'S right to delay the referendum, admitted the BOE on 10/11. "We" had no such contractual rights.. the BOE, so blinded by dollar signs, having happily signed their lives away already. This was no oversight: We're being "played," so blinded by greed are they that nobody even bothered to cover their tracks! Not the developer who wants "all" the wiggle room, nor the BOE who couldn't care less about that! Incompetence? Hardly! They all know exactly what they're doing. WE'RE the schnooks! At the BOE meeting on 10/11, a member sniffed, when asked what would happen in the event that EB manipulated that "wiggle room" should the referendum pass, "That's not OUR problem!" The room gave a collective gasp: The"mask" having slipped, did we actually glimpse the "wolf?" Tell us how you REALLY feel BOE! Once you get your money it's "not your problem" what EB is capable of doing to us anymore? Can this nightmare get any worse? Yes, I'm afraid it can! The contract doesn't protect us and I wouldn't bet the rent on any "new and improved" version engineered by EB while the BOE snoozes on.. There are so MANY reasons to vote "NO" on this, you can't pick just one!


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